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Outrageous claim of 5th of May as Bealtine rebuffed

2/5/2022

5 Comments

 
The claim on an fb page - “An astronomical event known as a cross-quarter day, Bealtaine marks the halfway point between the Spring Equinox and the Summer Solstice. Nowadays Bealtaine is most commonly celebrated on the 1st of May, although the actual astronomical event falls on the 5th of May this year.”

I asked - Please explain how "the actual astronomical event falls on the 5th of May" is calculated, astronomically speaking?

The reply was -
As I am sure you well know... Nowadays, Cross Quarter events/moments are interpolated as the split or bisector in degrees along the ecliptic between Solstices and Equinoxes which this year happens at 12:25 on May 5th. As for how the ancients calculated it ? Given the Irish weather, I'd say Good Vibes & Intuition. . . "astronomically speaking" of course

My reply was -
I only wanted to know how you can declare that "the actual astronomical event falls on the 5th of May". Astronomy is the measurement of the stars – a very definite mathematical discipline that until a few hundred years ago was part of Astrology which is the knowledge of the stars. You do not tell me how the stars or even which star/s were measured to set the date of 5th of May but you claim that there is an “actual astronomical event” to set the date of 5th of May. Your response includes your unsubstantiated claim that “As I am sure you well know…” - but I do not know how anyone can measure any star on the apparent path of the Sun among the constellations to set the date of the 5th of May as Bealtine. This is why I asked my question.

You do not explain how it happens at 12:25 either. Instead you interpolate which means “the insertion of something of a different nature into something else” as the basis for your “nowadays” calculations. This open declaration by you shows that you do not know “how the ancients calculated it (ie the true date for Bealtine)” because you state - “I'd say Good Vibes & Intuition” . . . "astronomically speaking" of course” thereby openly insulting the methodology of our wise ones and their advanced techniques because “Good Vibes & Intuition” are not, never were and can never be the basis for any calculations of the stars.

Your claim that your modern interpolation of mathematical calculations are superior to the wise ones knowledge of the stars to connect with the Eightfold Year of the Sun unless substantiated is beyond arrogance. Our ancestors were celebrating something way beyond your intellectual abstraction of interpolated mid points.

I attach a pic of the day sky with Sun glare removed as if you were looking at the sky from Tara at 12:25 on the 5th of May 2022. I do not see any “astronomical event” to determine the timing for Bealtine, even at 15* Taurus. Can you advise?

Another person replies to my question -
“it's 15° Taurus, like Samhain is 15° Scorpio”.

My reply -
What is at 15* Taurus that creates an astronomical event? Have a look at the attached graphic and help me to identify which star is being used in relation to how to determine Bealtine, please. Do you know that in Astronomy (the measurement of the stars) that Scorpio really only occupies 6* of the Zodiac? This is different to Astrology (the knowledge of the stars) where is it allowed to occupy 30* by incorporating all of the lost 13th sign…

My comment
The First Nations people of ‘America’ use the term “plastic shaman” to describe people who express / misrepresent their old indigenous culture with a syncretic approach, ignoring the given wisdom of tradition keepers and even claiming to know better that the actual people on the true indigenous Path. We might speak of ‘cherry picking’ or ‘cultural appropriation’ or even ‘complete misrepresentation’ for entertainment / commercial purposes / narcissistic glory by groups such as the 'wiccan burning cult' - https://www.celticdruidtemple.com/members-library1.html

In Turtle Island (America) the indigenous people have set up a list of ‘plastic shamans’ that is quite extensive and focused on exposing the fraud of those who steal the knowledge of the Path. Wiccanising our living heritage may be the greatest spiritual wrong being done in Ireland at this time. The Masonic Obods taking bits and pieces of our Irish indigenous practice adding it to their ineffective Kabbala practice really shows their emptiness. My own work regularly gets plagiarized and re-posted by people I do not know on the internet without acknowledgment – my work is often claimed as the work of another… I was even asked once by a plagiariser to prove that the article in question was actually mine!

What can be done? I do not want to hear that any publicity is good publicity or that plagiarism is a compliment or that I’m reaching a greater audience and so on… because the plagiarizer takes the teachings I give and uses them out of context to gain adherents to the plagiariser. What I mean by “What can be done” is how do true seekers get some protection from the thieves of truth by those who actually walk an Irish Celtic Path?


Suggestions welcome
/i\ Con
Beltine 2022
Picture
5 Comments
Monumental Ireland link
3/5/2022 06:11:58 pm

Aah Con Niamh Connor, You took down my comments... and you haven't posted my reply (so much for debate)... seems like I will have to post it myself... bet you're glad you trolled me now

Reply
Monumental Ireland link
3/5/2022 06:13:39 pm

Con Niamh Connor When I answered your original comment in good faith (even including a 😉 and a ✌), I half expected your return comment, accusing me of making "unsubstantiated claims", and "insulting the methodology of our wise ones”.

But I didn’t expect you to immediately put your unseen and unanswered comment up on your own FB BUSINESS page and your website (also quoting me me without credit) with the headline “Outrageous claim of 5th of May as Bealtine rebuffed”

An unanswered comment is not a “rebuff” and to post it as so, is somewhat underhand and petty. However, I presume you will give me the ‘right to reply’ and post this comment in full on your FB BUSINESS page and your website just as you did my last one.

So. . . Although this is a just a Facebook page about Ireland's ancient monuments, not a peer reviewed scientific journal. . . I shall nevertheless endeavour to "substantiate" my “outrageous claim", as to not do so would be, as you said in your comment, "beyond arrogance”.

Your previous comment is pasted below with my replies in brackets

“I only wanted to know how you can declare that "the actual astronomical event falls on the 5th of May". — (I did in my original comment: Nowadays Cross Quarter events/moments are interpolated as the split or bisector in degrees along the ecliptic between Solstices and Equinoxes which this year happens at 12:25 on May 5th.) —

"Astronomy is the measurement of the stars – a very definite mathematical discipline that until a few hundred years ago was part of Astrology which is the knowledge of the stars. You do not tell me how the stars or even which star/s were measured to set the date of 5th of May but you claim that there is an “actual astronomical event” to set the date of 5th of May." — (Again check original comment - the ‘ecliptic’ is the plane of Earth's orbit around the Sun. What other “star” do you think we rotate around?) —

"Your response includes your unsubstantiated claim that “As I am sure you well know…” — ( “As I am sure you well know" is not an "unsubstantiated claim" it is a turn of phrase, and I think it is somewhat disingenuous to say you don't know what a cross quarter event is or how it is calculated ) —

"but I do not know how anyone can measure any star on the apparent path of the Sun among the constellations to set the date of the 5th of May as Bealtine. This is why I asked my question" — ( Apologies, maybe you don't actually know what a cross quarter event is... That said, I also do not know how anyone can measure any star on the apparent path of the Sun among the constellations to set the date of the 5th of May as Bealtaine either... but I do know it has NOTHING to do with the calculation of a cross quarter moment/event!) --

"You do not explain how it happens at 12:25 either." — (Really? Again?… Cross Quarter events/moments are interpolated as the split or bisector in degrees along the ecliptic between Solstices and Equinoxes which this year happens at 12:25 on May 5th) —

"Instead you interpolate which means “the insertion of something of a different nature into something else” as the basis for your “nowadays” calculations". — ( Thanks for the wiki definition, but I did know what 'Interpolate' meant when I wrote my original comment. But now that YOU know what it means, try reading my original comment again and you *might* just find the answer to your earlier questions ) —

"This open declaration by you shows that you do not know “how the ancients calculated it (ie the true date for Bealtine)" — (There you go again with this "open declaration" stuff again... its a FACEBOOK COMMENT! (With a Winky Face & a Peace Sign FFS!) Of course I dont know how the ancients calculated the days for getting their hoodoo groove on... NOBODY DOES) —

“because you state - “I'd say Good Vibes & Intuition” . . . "astronomically speaking" of course” thereby openly insulting the methodology of our wise ones and their advanced techniques because “Good Vibes & Intuition” are not, never were and can never be the basis for any calculations of the stars” — ( It might not be a good joke but at least get it right, I said.. “As for how the ancients calculated it ? Given the Irish weather, I'd say Good Vibes & Intuition. . . "astronomically speaking" of course… 😉✌" How is that "openly insulting the wise ones"... whatever happened to peace love and understanding… and a sense of humour? To be honest, I think the "wise ones" would be a lot more insulted by BAD VIBES & TUITION like that peddled by celto-conspiritualists, appropriating Irish cultural heritage for their own financial gain. But then again, I don

Reply
monumental Ireland link
3/5/2022 06:14:55 pm

don’t charge people for my “unsubstantiated claims” so I think I am alright there.) --

“Your claim — (where ???) — that your modern interpolation of mathematical calculations are superior to the wise ones knowledge of the stars to connect with the Eightfold Year of the Sun unless substantiated is beyond arrogance. — (So let me get this straight… I must substantiate a claim that I didn’t make to prove a claim that you have made that you cannot possibly substantiate but unless substantiated, is beyond arrogance?) —

“Our ancestors were celebrating something way beyond your intellectual abstraction of interpolated mid points” — ( I actually agree with you on this one but you can’t substantiate this claim either, and you know the rules! - If you make the claim, unless substantiated its beyond arrogance!) --

“I attach a pic of the day sky with Sun glare removed as if you were looking at the sky from Tara at 12:25 on the 5th of May 2022” — (So this is the "methodology of our wise ones and their advanced techniques" . . . the arcane knowledge of the ancients passed on to YOU via the App Store onto your phone?) —

“I do not see any “astronomical event” to determine the timing for Bealtine” — (and yet you STILL can't see an event 😔) —

“Can you advise?”

— ( Here is my advice. Don’t ever troll this page again!) —

P.S. I am really tempted to put this out as a public post on MI along with screenshots of your post and website article about how you “rebuffed my outrageous claims”, I know a lot of the people on my page, and yours would love to hear the story of your MONUMENTAL SMACKDOWN, but seeing as you got the big scoop first and you could really do with some interaction on your pages, like I said, I will let you post this comment in full on your own BUSINESS page and website, just like you did my last comment.

Is Mise le Meas

Reply
Monumental Ireland link
3/5/2022 06:42:54 pm

BTW. Rebuff - to reject (someone or something) in an abrupt or ungracious manner. Your rejection was neither abrupt or ungracious, more like long and whiny... #worstrebuffever

Reply
Anto
16/5/2022 02:51:10 pm

What a shame I have to read this drivel instead of learning and following my ancestors.
Can you guys not agree to disagree and either work together or leave well enough alone.

Reply



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    Niamh and Con are founding members of Celtic Druid Temple and walk the path of Celtic Druids in Roscommon, Eire.

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